Hooligan Chats: Macie Stewart Finds Music in the In-Between
“I try not to overthink things too much because I am an overthinker. When I get to those points, I try not to spiral myself into a corner with creative decisions… and that’s how this record happened.”
- Macie Stewart
Photos + Interview by Andrea van den Boogaard
Hooligan meets Macie Stewart on the 606 trail to discuss their second solo album, When the Distance is Blue. Released this March with Chicago-based label International Anthem, it’s a largely improvised collection of songs - a self-described sound “collage.” But this is just one of many projects in the multi-instrumentalists’ dynamic career. As they jump between creative endeavors, one thing remains constant: Macie Stewart knows that it takes a village.
It’s a dull Spring day, but Macie’s blood red cloak - a keepsake from one of their many international tours with longtime project Finom - can be spotted from blocks away. They smile, admiring the city over their cup of coffee as I press the record button.
You’ve described When the Distance is Blue as “a love letter to the moments we spend in-between.” What personal “in betweens” did you encounter while working on this album?
I was coming out of a period of a lot of travel - And I was touring in other peoples’ bands a lot, and in my own. I moved apartments, too, and I was kind of enjoying the process of just making, and traveling and floating through something. And I was like, “I’m not quite sure what my goals should be. I’m not sure where I should be going.” And sometimes that feels really scary - I would say often that feels really scary [laughing]. But I started just enjoying the moments of travel, the tiny periods of stillness.
When you’re on tour, as soon as you get to a place, you’re go-go-go. What I like about traveling is the one part where you’re, like, sitting on a train. It’s A to B, and in that time, there’s nothing to be but… in this space and to figure out what to do with myself [laughs]. And you can let go of a lot in those moments. I was finding a lot of joy in listening to what was happening around me in them.
On the record, there are recordings of those moments, like walking through spaces or sitting in an airport while there are people running around me and talking. I feel like I’ve always enjoyed that feeling. And I especially found that through the process of making the record.
Which airport?
[smiling] Osaka. I was going to Seoul.
What other places - or moments - are featured in those recordings?
Well, there’s the Tsukiji Fish Market in Tokyo, where fishermen bring fresh catches.
And I have another - This isn’t technically a field recording, but when I was on tour with Kevin Morby, we were in Paris and I was like, “I’m done being on tour. I’m going to go sit by myself” [laughing].
And I found this stairwell with crazy reverb in it. And so I just sat there for 40 minutes singing and improvising because no one was in there, with my little Zoom recorder. [laughing] And that made it on the record too.
Your debut solo album, Mouth Full of Glass, was recorded at your home studio during quarantine. What was it like to change processes with Dave Vettraino for this album?
It was cool - I actually started recording Mouth Full of Glass with Dave in 2019. But then 2020 happened, and all of my roommates moved out, and there was no one in my building, and I was like… I can just make as much noise as I want?! And I didn’t know when that was ever going to happen again. [smiling] And then Dave came into the mixing process at the end.
For this album, Dave works at International Anthem, and he approached me and asked if I wanted to make a record for them. And I was like, “YES!”
So we booked a session at Palisades, and I improvised on the piano. Dave and I sat in the studio, and we just mixed and cut up the improvisations, making forms from them. It felt very intuitive - like, “I like this, and I like that, can we just smash the two of them together and throw the rest of it out?” [laughing] I like working with Dave because he’s good at going with the flow, and has great ideas and is very supportive.
I keep calling it a collage record, because that’s really what it is. I recorded bits and pieces of things and tried to recontextualize them with recordings from other places and other times - when a recording from 2022 mixes with a recording from 2024, seeing where my headspace was, and who I was playing with, and how that interacts with each other.
Did that influence the album cover too, that collage feeling?
Yeah! It’s actually funny, because my friend Zander Raymond, who made the album cover, makes these beautiful laminated collages. [smiling] They’re so fucking cool.
I texted him asking if he would want to collaborate on my album cover, and we were looking through his collages and talking about elements that we wanted in this collage, and we had a pretty good idea of what we wanted. And I was about to leave when he found this one. And we were like, “Oh my God!” [laughing] That was it!
I’m realizing that’s how I make things, and just exist in life. It’s a lot of searching searching searching, and then [points] that’s it! Next! [laughing]
I try not to overthink things too much. Because I am an overthinker. And when I get to those points, I try not to spiral myself into a corner with creative decisions. That’s how this record happened.
Did it feel that way working with Lia Kohl again for “I Forget How To Remember My Dreams” and “Spring Becomes You, Spring Becomes New”?
Lia is one of my favorite people, musicians, friends, creators - I love Lia. I remember I met her at a rehearsal in 2017, and she had an incredible yellow rain jacket and a bright red cello case, and I was like, “Oh shit. I want to be your friend.” [laughing]
But the way she approaches creativity and listens is really inspiring. When we play together, there’s an unspoken flow that brings out things in me - things that wouldn’t be there otherwise.
And you both have this crazy classical performance background, too. Do you remember what initially catalyzed your transition into experimental/improvised music?
I grew up on classical music, and was going to go to college for classical piano performance. But I ended up in a band in high school and started touring. And I was like, “Sorry, I’m actually not going to go to college.” [laughing]
And I never fell out of love with classical music, but I did discover the ways that it helped me, as well as the ways it held me back.
When I was in high school, the people I was playing with were jazz musicians. And I love jazz - But capital J “Jazz” is not where my brain went. I mean, I tried - I got kicked out of jazz band! [laughs]. I had skills, but they were not so easily translatable into the Bebop realm, or the classic jazz realm. But I wanted to improvise, and I knew I knew how to improvise, but didn’t know how to make it happen.
And then I lived in an apartment on Western Ave above a 4am bar - [laughing] That’s a whole other saga - But it was a block away from Constellation. And Sima Cunningham helped open Constellation. I had just turned 21, and my roommate was bartending there, so I would go every day. And seeing shows there, I learned there were so many ways to make music. It was the most eye-opening thing for me and my career. I remember seeing Mark Ribot, who was part of this trio called Ceramic Dog, and Tomeka Reid, who is a really great cello player and improviser, and Katie Young, who moved to Atlanta, but she was playing in Chicago a lot then.
Yeah, it’s cool to see… not men. [laughing] Representing up there, holding down those spaces. And I was like, “Yeah, I can do that too!”
- Macie Stewart
Fast forwarding here - Could you tell us about the music video for Spring Becomes You, Spring Becomes New?
My friend Michael Patrick Avery is another one of my favorite artists and musicians, and another early improviser who I saw in Chicago - and is such a creative human. And I like how playful he is with the things he makes. So I asked him if he would make a music video! I was curious to see what it would be. And we had a concept for a totally different thing, and then he sent me THIS - And I was like, “This is fucking awesome.” It fit the song really well. And I don’t have the words as to exactly why it feels that way, but I think there’s this aspect of surrealism and playfulness, but also… containment. [smiling]
It’s interesting to hear you talk about all of this in the context of a solo album. With all the people you bring into it - It really is a true collaboration between equals. Versus one person being in a more controlling seat.
I don’t think I have that - Well, I do actually have that [laughing] - that control tendency in myself. But I don’t like it. And that’s when I feel most comfortable - When I’m not in that role. Because I for sure have strong ideas, but I feel most fulfilled and creatively realized when I like a person and what they bring, and I want them to be them. For Mouth Full of Glass, my goal for THAT was to make a record where I play everything. Because I wanted full control of it.
Which you did. You did that. [laughing]
[laughing] It was more of a goal of proving to myself that I could do all those things. But now I know that I can. And I also know that I don’t like working in isolation!So thank you for saying that. I think it was an unspoken thought I had on the record - I want my people here with me. And I don’t want it to feel like I’m telling them what to do. I want it to feel open.
What else in Chicago is inspiring you right now?
Such a good question. So many people are inspiring me all the time. Let me read you my list! [laughing]. No, but I’m inspired by Whitney Johnson and Zach Moore. [smiling] All the people who are on the record really inspire me. I’m inspired by Alex Grelle. I don’t know how he makes things happen, but he 100% does. Him and his partner, Paul. The way that they’re able to have a million ideas and actually make them happen is crazy.
I’m inspired by the resilience of the Chicago scene, too. It keeps regenerating itself in a way that’s really creatively cool. There are always new things happening. Super inspired by the younger scene of musicians who are popping up, too. There’s this incredible scene of people making things, doing it better than we did, you know? [laughs] . And that’s coming back to the resilience of the Chicago scene. I think it just keeps giving and attracting people with the ethos of wanting to make something deep.
Chicago brings really beautiful people into it.
Macie Stewart performs their release show for When The Distance Is Blue Record Release with Honestly, Same on April 3 at Constellation. They tour with Finom through March and tour When The Distance Is Blue in Philly, New York, and LA from April 29 through May 11.