Moving Through Anger and Grief to Find Acceptance: An Interview with V.V. Lightbody
Photo by Rachel Winslow
During a pause in the press cycle for V.V. Lightbody AKA Vivian McConnell’s new album Make A Shrine Or Burn It (out on Acrophase May 1) we jump on a video call. McConnell’s brand of “nap rock” is more malleable on Make A Shrine or Burn It, subverting her indie-folk sensibilities with bossa nova inspired percussion. With gentle vocals she is deliberate and wry, finding herself more tongue-in-cheek than on her 2018 album, Bathing Peach. Wild flutes and searing saxophones swirl around the album, giving it an eclectic, hypnotizing feel. Make A Shrine Or Burn It is the sound of a woman returning to herself and reckoning with those who have wronged her, relationships ending, and her shifting perspective on what her own life should look like at this point. In a biting individual statement, McConnell moves through anger and grief to find acceptance. Make A Shrine Or Burn It comes with a sense of realization and newly developed inner confidence willing to proceed through the world feeling complete in itself. With the exact maturity that can be found on her album we talk about letting go, self-reflection, rent, and Jewel.
Hooligan Mag (H.M.): There’s a lot of acceptance on the album. One of the tracks, 'If It's Not Me,' is about an ex moving on. Do you feel like there’s some contentment in letting go?
V.V. Lightbody (V.L.): Yeah, totally, I think that sometimes we - or I’ll speak for myself - I think growing up or dating in the past, I had a hard time letting things go or just got really attached to people in ways that were kind of unhealthy. This record goes through a bunch of experiences that helped me grow a lot and realize that sometimes things just don’t work out and that’s not always because something’s wrong or it’s bad, sometimes they just don’t work out because of timing. There are so many reasons. It’s really liberating to be able to let go of those feelings while also being sad and grieving about relationships.
H.M.: And being able to do all three at the same time? Having liberation but allowing yourself to grieve, and be sad, and knowing all of those can exist simultaneously.
V.L.: I think referring to ‘It’s Not Me’ specifically there are so many people in this world, and growing up I think we are raised to believe there’s The One(™) for you. I don't know ... I just love so many people and I think that’s kind of a flawed way of thinking. One person isn’t going to be everything for you. It’s important to feel sad when something doesn’t work, but being mature about it and hopeful for the next thing is really exciting. it’s also [about being] accepting, you’re accepting yourself and who you are, and how you can handle things.
H.M.: How do you come to feel happy for people you were once attached to or move on from jealousy?
V.L.: I think it comes down to being comfortable with myself and knowing that just because somebody is seeing somebody else that doesn’t take away from who I am. It feels really good to flip the narrative and be able to be happy for this person. It would be harder if I hated my exes, right? But even then, even if you really hate the ex, at one point you loved them and we don’t all want our exes to burn. It feels really good to be happy for them, and I found over the years that feels way better than wishing bad luck upon them or unhappiness. I function more like that. Kind of just getting rid of grudges and letting it go.
H.M.: I really love “I never wanna hate another woman/just because she’s out there livin’”. It kind of reminds me of a song off Fiona Apple’s new album where she sings, “Nobody can replace anybody else/so, it would be a shame to make it a competition”. It’s like a good song about how you shouldn't be upset with another woman’s situation and how we should just come together. It’s like a hot girl summer message Fiona Apple style.
V.L.: I’m just tickled that you compared me to Fiona Apple, what a huge lyrical inspiration for me. But that’s the sentiment. Just because somebody is dating someone else doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with me. Also, women, we’re put up against each other all the time, because of society we feel like we have to compete. Especially in the music industry which I could talk [about] … a lot.
H.M: What’s it like to really look inward when there’s so much external pressure on not only competition but productivity?
V.L.: I’m gonna think about the word ”balance” a lot and I want to reference that word. I think that being a musician has so much external pressure from outside audiences. You’re trying to get people to come to your show, you’re like, “Hey, hey look at me, listen to my song!”
I always need to be writing, I always need to be creating. But, looking inward and being more reflective is what creates the best art that I can make. It’s always about writing for yourself, but it’s also important to have the audience in mind. I’ve actually been talking about this a lot. Somebody asked me, “Do you write songs thinking about the audience, and who’s going to be listening to them?” and I think the coolest thing for me to say is, “No, I only write for myself.” But I want this to be my career, of course, I’m thinking about the audience. Diving inward can break things out of me that hopefully, people can relate to. As far as productivity goes, productivity during this time, I’m just learning to be really gentle on myself. And I think it’s really important for people and artists to be gentle on themselves and know that now is a good time to be able to not worry about how much you’re creating, but the quality. And making things for you.
H.M.: On ‘Horse On Fire’ you’re kind of encouraging someone to look back and apologize. Do you feel like there a lot of people who should be doing more deep self-reflection?
V.L.: If they fuck up big time, yes. I think that I wrote that song about a good friend who did something that hurt a lot of people, and I wrote it from a pretty angry place. I think people have a hard time saying sorry genuinely and honestly. I say sorry too much. But, I think it’s just really important that people do publicly apologize and take time to not fix their actions, but try to grow from them and let other people know how they made them feel. It’s maybe referencing some call-out culture and just like, “Hey you messed up, you need to apologize”. And I’m not saying an apology is everything that needs to happen, but it’s very, “Think about what you did. I’m really mad at you”.
H.M.: And to me, you’re slightly threatening about it. It’s like you need to do self- reflection and also or else.
V.L.: That’s totally true. What’s really important about it too, is that it’s kind of angry and sonically it’s really important because most of the song is demanding, apologize, don’t come back until you do. But then the bridge is where it gets way more soft and intimate. It’s the softer side of things. Ya know, you gotta apologize and don’t come back, but I feel really sad about losing this person in my life as a friend.
H.M.: And then there’s a lot of acknowledgment of your own mistakes and recognizing the cost of your actions but holding the good moments. And I feel like I hear that the most on ‘USPS,’ where despite what happened you’re hoping those moments aren’t lost.
V.L.: It’s important to look back on a relationship and be able to think about the things that you have done and that, in a way, that informs not feeling jealous or your own confidence moving forward. It is like you know what, no, we had some really good times and also I maybe made some mistakes too in that relationship.
H.M.: Do you think that’s a big part of it too? That confidence to keep moving forward?
V.L.: I think it falls under the, “ gotta love yourself first,” mentality. I was in a lot of relationships where I wasn’t happy because I didn’t know how to love myself and I wasn’t super confident with myself. I think that a relationship isn’t gonna solve that, right? I think about relationships as -- I don’t know if you’ve ever heard this, I don’t know where I read this, but I think it’s a pretty common way to think about relationships. Where the relationship is not what completes you, the relationship is a third thing that is separate from you, even though it can be flowing. Yes, this person in the relationship makes you feel good but it’s not without the other person in the relationship. You’re still gonna be you and ok. I don’t know. Maybe it’s because I’m almost 30, and I’ve had a handful of relationships, but it’s like of course, you don’t need this other person to complete you even though they can make you feel complete.
‘H.M.: Split The Rent’ feels like this very cordial track that almost works as a bookend with ‘If It’s Not Me.’ It’s like no matter what happens I’m still gonna pay rent and pay bills and be this idea of what respectable people do. What was kind of the thought process there?
V.L.: ‘Split The Rent’ is about hypothetically moving in with your partner. That’s an interesting take on it, I’m thinking about that too. But the way that I was thinking about it is, “what could we have if we did move in together?” And I think there are some fantasies going on there where it’s like, “Yes I’d pay the gas bill and you’d pay internet and we’d keep it clean and it would be an organized space.” It’s something I wanted to capture in a song. I think it’s a really beautiful idea, to be able to move in with somebody, or when you’re feeling ready for that. But in ‘Split The Rent’ it’s never actualized, it never happens. It’s all hypothetical. It’s supposed to be really crushing because I never moved in with said person.
H.M.: To me it still feels crushing in that matter. But it’s funny to me that I thought about it in such a different way.
V.L.: That’s the thing, I love that. Because in a way, [it comes down to] being confident and moving on, no matter what happens. In a pretty brutal way. No matter how sad I am I still have to fucking pay my bills. I like that take on it too.
H.M.: You sing “there’s no such thing as paying rent” on ‘Horse on Fire’ and then ‘Split the Rent’ is about actually paying rent. How do you feel about the activism for rent strikes happening right now?
V.L.: I am feeling stoked on it and I’m honestly appalled that the government isn't doing more. There’s so much to talk about. I played a little rent strike on our live stream. It’s funny you mention that, because I talk about paying bills, paying rent, and also USPS on this record, and I’m realizing that maybe clairvoyant.
H.M.: V.V. Lightbody predicts the future.
V.L.: It’s funny just to talk on that really quickly because I think it’s important to acknowledge [how] I used to write. My first record, Bathing Peach is way more flowery and metaphorical language and I would’ve never dreamed of saying, “pay the rent,” or even using the word, “online.” But, I think that with this record, at least lyrically, I just wasn’t afraid to be a little more blunt, and also just not funny necessarily, but a little tongue-in-cheeky. But also make it a little more relatable and a little more 2020.
H.M.: I know you talk about ‘Car Alarm’ being this tongue-in-cheek song about artists who exaggerate everything and we’re all set off by the tiniest detail and we need to go run away and write. But there’s also this declaration to not languish and be that kind of reactionary person?
V.L.: I think it’s cool to hear you say that because I didn’t think about it that way but that is functioning a little bit. I’m even thinking, “I’ll never die/ although I’ll try to do it in the sky,” is literally a lyric about me trying to stop freaking out about death. [While also] being like, “No no no, I’m never gonna die, it’s fine.” By being kind of coy like being, “the darkest darling,” is making fun of myself like “I’m the saddest.” But also there is a little bit of keeping it cool in there or at least setting myself up to not react that way.
H.M.: Maybe this is indulgent on my end but I wanna talk a bit about the music video for ‘Car Alarm’. Is that your own car in the video?
V.L.: Yeah!
H.M.: You said that with such pride!
V.L.: My dad is a Buick brand loyalist for a lot of reasons. But honestly, the Buick is a great car. I feel like a grandma, I feel very safe in it. I love cruising around in it, it’s like my boat. I grew up in kind of a small town and everybody knew my family as the Buick Family. Now, and I’m not joking, my parents have two matching Buicks. It’s absurd. To me, it’s almost this symbol of deep Midwesternism, I’m cruising around in the country with my Buick.
H.M.: What was learning choreography and having that cowboy-esque dance on top of cars like?
V.L.: Actually I choreographed that in tandem with one of the dancers, Erin. I was like, “Here’s what I’m thinking,” and [then] she came over, I think literally, the night before, maybe a couple of nights before. We wrote it together in my kitchen. So, that was a really new experience for me. I don’t really talk about that a lot but I’m really, really proud of it. I don’t think that I necessarily scream dancer. But in my heart, I’m screaming dancer all the time. That was just a super fun experience. One of the dancers, Andrew, was/is supposed to open for my record release show in the fall, October 2. Obviously ... we’ll see. But if you could give a little Andrew Sa shout out, he’s an amazing artist. And Erin is also in a great band. So it was fun too because I really got to know them on a music video shoot. It would be fun actually if you could give [Erin] a little shout. She plays in a band called Daymaker. She’s wonderful.
H.M.: “I don’t wanna talk about your day,” on ‘BYOB’ is such a good subtle burn to me. What does it mean to be your own boyfriend?
V.L.: Well, I think this beautifully ties back to the concept of the three. The relationship is not what completes you. Being your own boyfriend feeds into this idea -- well, I wrote it when I was really single. But [it’s also] this concept of discovering what it means to be alone, and going to bed and not feeling like I have to send anybody a text message or be like, “made it home safe,” or checking in with somebody all the time. And, that was really empowering for me. It’s the little things, [that] you don’t really realize that you’re doing that in a relationship. And I’m not saying that’s bad -- I think it’s good to check in with your partner and be like, “Hey, I made it home safe.” I’m not saying to not do that -- but being freed from that after being in a relationship. I was in a couple of pretty long relationships before I wrote that song. Being free from that and moving through the world just as myself was really, really, important. So that’s kind of the concept of being your own boyfriend. Like, take yourself out, cook yourself dinner, the idea that you are self-sufficient and you are enough. But [laughs] that is also riddled with loneliness too where the lyric, “take off all your clothes/ when you don’t know where to go,” is kind of … have you ever heard of that meme where --
H.M.: Probably.
V.L.: It’s just like, “ Sorry I’m late, I sat on my bed in my towel staring at the wall for an hour.” That lyric takes on that energy a little bit. All of a sudden, the character in the song comes to and is completely naked in their room and is like, “What am I doing?” Also in a confident, sexy way. Walking around naked in your house is really empowering. I think there’s something to it and it feels really vulnerable but really empowering at the same time.
H.M.: ‘Offers’ has that line, “won’t be saved/ with a god or a baby,” which to me really feels like about how the body is not a bargaining device. This isn’t a negotiation or a battleground for whatever the discussion is. I wanted to hear your thoughts on the amount of autonomy that went into writing that or that just exists in that track.
V.L.: Growing up with the societal pressures of being a woman and also having constant pressures to procreate is, is a lot. And I was thinking a lot about that and also being frustrated by being alive. The chorus is literally like, “I didn’t ask for this, I didn’t ask to be born.” You know, I’m really happy to be alive. But sometimes, we have those thoughts and that’s ok. But then, it’s like how do we justify being alive? I think that song is exploring a lot of that. Some people go with religion and they feel really comfortable with that, and some people have kids and the rest of us ... those don’t answer anything for me, at least right now. I don’t want to feel like I have to have a baby to feel complete. Even though, at some point, I would love to have a baby. But I don’t want to feel pressured into it, or like that’s the only way I’m going to live a successful life.
H.M.: And that fits with moving through and not having to feel tied to another thing or another pressure.
V.L.: It’s also dealing with the sadness. It’s a really intense and sad song. But dealing with grief or the realization that’s not what I want anymore. In my whole life, I was like, “ When I’m 23 I’m gonna get married and have babies and have a job.” It’s kind of dealing with, especially for my generation, that’s not as common. It’s kind of dealing with my life and the idea of my life changing.
H.M.: I feel like this is the big question. And maybe this is the obvious question. But who is the shrine built for? What do you feel like you’re honoring?
V.L.: The shrine is built for me. It’s a metaphor for basically finding the things that serve you, or make you feel good, or help you become the confident person that you need to be. And finding those things, and making a shrine out of them. By making a shrine, it just means nurture them, burn some incense, [laughs] no not that literal. It’s putting time and effort into them and caring for them. And anything that’s not really making you feel good or serving you. I think, “serve” is an intense word, but I think you understand what I mean. If it’s not helping you in any way, get it out of there. I said “yes” to everything for a really long time, and I was so spread thin for so long that I couldn’t live with that mentality anymore. I think it can be applied to all parts of your life whether it be a career, or a relationship, or art in general, and how you live. I think it’s really important, and that was my mantra for 2018: “Make a shrine or burn it.” And then, I kept thinking about that idea. Also, just to be clear, the shrine is not one thing, the shrine is a collection of the pieces of you. Pieces of you? That’s a fucking Jewel record. I don’t know if you ... My sixth-grade self would be so proud of me. Shout out to Jewel.